Paul Gross on 4a’s ([email protected])

njrider

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2006
557
313
USA New Jersey
4a's are crap! send me all of yours and I will depose of them properly in my boards.

Good thing I surf worse than the fin.
I sell a lot of fins of of my shop. The fin that most people keep coming back to is the Greenough 4a...for an all around smooth ride...can turn but still noseride. Maybe it's our conditions or maybe it's our customers.
 

miscreant

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2016
2,529
1,228
Thick leading edge at base has physical advantages that are well known and widely reported, its more than opinion or feelings, see sailboat keels, airplane wings, cetacean flukes and fins etc... Its expensive to make these and with the price point pressure, why you don't see more.
I see the examples you give are applicable in the context of more than feelings or opinion.

I don't think surfing fits the situation as well as the examples you cite.

I'm not trying to advocate the functionality or lack of functionality of thin leading edge fins necessarily.

Rather, I am saying no one other than the rider of a particular board/fin has an opportunity to determine if their board/fin is "good" or not.

It's like trying to tell someone canned water isn't right.

.. or something.


I'd have a hard time buying into any study of surfboard fin lab results. How cold anyone feel like what they were reading could be sufficiently translated to their situation. You aren't surfing in those lab conditions. Beyond the subjective nature of our beloved activity...Surfing is super dynamic and varied. We all carry our weight differently, different center of gravity, different stance. Ocean waves (where most of us surf) are always different. Trying to argue the performance difference of a fraction of an inch and its impact on most of the surfing population is a good chuckle.

Moreover, surfing is chill.

Most of us aren't trying to win a shiny trophy.
 

SMUKES

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2009
2,932
718
USA California
I see the examples you give are applicable in the context of more than feelings or opinion.

I don't think surfing fits the situation as well as the examples you cite.

I'm not trying to advocate the functionality or lack of functionality of thin leading edge fins necessarily.

Rather, I am saying no one other than the rider of a particular board/fin has an opportunity to determine if their board/fin is "good" or not.

It's like trying to tell someone canned water isn't right.

.. or something.


I'd have a hard time buying into any study of surfboard fin lab results. How cold anyone feel like what they were reading could be sufficiently translated to their situation. You aren't surfing in those lab conditions. Beyond the subjective nature of our beloved activity...Surfing is super dynamic and varied. We all carry our weight differently, different center of gravity, different stance. Ocean waves (where most of us surf) are always different. Trying to argue the performance difference of a fraction of an inch and its impact on most of the surfing population is a good chuckle.

Moreover, surfing is chill.

Most of us aren't trying to win a shiny trophy.
Totally. Too many variables. I was just pointing out "thicc" does "something" and it may be a "benefit" for moving thru a fluid.
 

Budthedog

Active Member
Dec 22, 2020
112
134
California
I don’t think arguing that it’s all subjective (which... of course it is!) needs to end a discussion about good design. You’re not wrong if you love your 4a or if you can’t tell the difference - sometimes it’s just fun to get into the weeds!

(Also makes me wonder, at what point do differences overrule the “it’s all subjective” point? .5 inch difference? 3 inch difference?)
 
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miscreant

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2016
2,529
1,228
Totally. Too many variables. I was just pointing out "thicc" does "something" and it may be a "benefit" for moving thru a fluid.
I love this stuff.

When one looks at sail boats, big ocean freighters and such... airplane wings... There is a tremendous amount of analysis that goes into the particular values of the contributing variables. Of the variable's values are things like...an understanding of what direction force is coming from, how much force there is, what the load is, and where the load is. stuff like that.

Then they use that (and all kinds of other data from other aspects of design) to determine how thick (thicc) to make said leading edge. So thick may benefit.

How thick? Can't there be too big of a bulb? There must be.

On surfboard fins...how thick should the leading edge be? Why?


Wouldn't one persons leading edge thickness be different than another person's?
 

SMUKES

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2009
2,932
718
USA California
Did you see that vid of CJ talking about Yater's "1/3 rule"? This made me think of that and how the only data provided was that Yater said it. The fin CJ was using looked immediately too large for the tail to my eye but I am wrong cuz yater said I'm wrong hahaha
 

miscreant

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2016
2,529
1,228
Did you see that vid of CJ talking about Yater's "1/3 rule"? This made me think of that and how the only data provided was that Yater said it. The fin CJ was using looked immediately too large for the tail to my eye but I am wrong cuz yater said I'm wrong hahaha
I haven't. Yet this panel thickness thing seems on point with that.
 




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